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Sustainability unwrapped a conversational podcast about responsibility, ethics, equalities,

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climate change and other challenges of our times where science needs practise to think about a world and how to make our society more sustainable.

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One forecast at a time. Good day to everyone.

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But still, Mahmoud is on for some time, beaches and parks have teamed with picnickers.

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The city is abuzz with a few tourists and gardens have brightened the surroundings.

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It seems life has entered a more carefree pace.

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There's a feeling that things are getting back to normal after the pandemic restrictions have been lifted.

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There is the Mansky exhibit at Menta Blic at Amer's, Rex Rippin at up to name a gallery of cultural events for everyone's tastes.

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Maria here is special researcher at Cooper Cultural Research Policy Centre remarked that there are no

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commonly agreed cultural policy goals to quoter when you look at the party's cultural policy agenda.

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So you realise that culture is clearly not the kind of political issue we prioritise.

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For example, the municipal elections are a researchers have monitored the party's attitudes towards the importance of culture and municipalities.

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It looks pretty weak.

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On the other hand, Rita Kivel Stoya, chief director of the Department of Culture and Arts Policy under the Ministry of Education and Culture,

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argues that the comparison with the Nordic countries described in Helsingør in Sanomat was partly based on incorrect information.

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She affirms that the government has so far proposed additional funding for arts and

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culture this year in both draught budget amendments totalling to 147 million euros,

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more over the additional appropriations proposed for the sector due to the coronavirus in 2020 and 2021, totalling two hundred fifty seven.

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Seven million euros correspond to just under half of the state culture budget for a normal year.

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Today, as part of Hanken Sustainability Unwrapped podcast, we will be listening to representatives from a cultural foundation,

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the academe and the profession, to discuss should the arts be considered in the discourse on sustainability?

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Here with us today are author Pain in the Art Canek coordinator at all to university.

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She's an art expert with a background as an artist, designer, researcher and lecturer.

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Her work is universe wide and includes curating and coordinating both permanent and temporary art projects,

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exhibitions, events, publications and public art.

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During her career, she has worked on many positions of trust at the moment.

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She is the vice chair of Audible Audible Art and Design Finland, who also selected her as the artist of the Year 2012.

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Welcome. Thank you. Very nice to be here today.

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Next with us is Veli Marcus Doppio, who is the senior advisor at the Finnish Cultural Foundation.

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It was originally trained as a musician, acquired his doctoral degree at the Sebelius Academy and earned his money by gigging across Europe.

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Later, due to health reasons, he went back to school and became a lawyer.

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His job at the foundation mostly concerns the analysis and development of the mechanisms of arts and research.

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Funding is also involved with issues related to sustainability and general cultural policy.

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For instance, he was a member of the expert group behind the new law on the promotion of performing arts.

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Welcome, Veli Marcus. Thank you. Nice to be here.

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Good. And finally, we have Pablo Halonen.

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He is a contemporary artist, a designer based in Helsinki, though his origins are from an on koskie located in Southern California.

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His materials and inspirations, exhibiters, eastern Finnish roots,

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as well as cultural layers from residency in Vietnam, Hong Kong, Paris and Tatarstan.

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Besides formal art studies, Parboil has also trained himself in glassblowing, lithography, woodcutting and Gilday.

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His works have been exhibited in Finland and abroad. They've also been part of collections found in Kosma Helsinki Art Museum.

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We were an art collection, to name a few. Welcome, Pavel.

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Thank you, Maria. Lovely to be here. OK.

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And I'm your host for today, Madison Gaiters from the Centre for Languages and Business Communication at Tonken.

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Dr. John Clammer, professor to science, astrology, road sustainability has become the buzzword of our generation and in many ways correctly so,

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without sustainability, we either do not have a future as a species or if we do at best, a very impoverished one.

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In addition to British green architect James WINZ has suggested that without art, the whole idea of sustainability fails.

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What does art have to do with sustainability? Well, if I may jump in here, I think not necessarily anything.

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Or maybe a lot or something in between because.

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We can choose to have art that is more sustainable than other forms of art,

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but we don't have to or we can choose to use art as a means to sustainable ends.

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But again, we don't have to.

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Art in itself has no essential nature that would make it more or less sustainable than out of subsistence of human society.

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But from the point of view of funding or organisation that I present of a special interest is the

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question what type of conditions and limitations does the strive for sustainability impose upon art?

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Because I mean, within art, within the art, there is a tendency to think that the call for change mainly concerns the others.

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Somebody else should buy less stuff or somebody else should travel less or should not drive a car.

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But we artists after we are the good guys, aren't we? Maybe we could do a little bit better, but.

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But there's a very strong.

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Fundamental background idea that art in itself must remain free of external debt obligations, such as strive for sustainability,

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I mean, behind this thinking lies the 19th century romantic notion of the art as an autonomous sphere.

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At the concept of sustainability is strongly connected to the concept of efficiency, especially in resource efficiency.

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And contrary to what many believe, the history of art is very much shaped by this kind of thinking.

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I mean, the history of art. There is a very long line of staff strive for more efficient means of production.

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And the question is then for funders, should the arts be left to its own devices and looking for ways to a more sustainable future?

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Or should the funders enforce this process by setting sustainability driven criteria for the decisions?

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This issue remains contentious and systemic. Change in funding and means of production will always lead to changes in the artistic content.

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And for the past century, the question of artistic quality, which means what kind of art is good?

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Consider the monopoly of the artistic community in itself.

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Of course, in the previous centuries it was not like this. Very interesting.

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OK. Nice thought provoking ideas, really, Marcus, here, I would like to add that as as a general notion,

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art can potentially have a lot to do with sustainability.

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Firstly, the impact art can do is connected to the very idea that artists can bring forward some sustainability in order to create impact art.

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It creates emotions, makes us be aware, even be embarrassed or angry,

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and also inspires us all to rethink how we live and what can we change for a more sustainable future.

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Art can make us act as it stimulates also hope.

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Secondly, I would like to focus on material choices which are used in art, design and architecture through the use of materials in a new way.

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Art can create examples and new possibilities which can further affect our society in a wide way by making impact.

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I would like to give a couple of examples here from a researcher and an artist from Aalto University.

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For example, Professor Mark Makela and her team have been making art for waste material through an artistic research project where art and craft

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making can be understood as a philosophical space to think through the ethical and ecological concerns related to the environment.

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The project is called a treacy's fund, the Anthropocene working with the soil,

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and it has been accepted in Design Museum last year at Helsinki, but also in the previous Venice Biennale in the research pavilion.

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The research actually they DECT in Venice, for example, the spoilt land material and used that as the ceramic sort of decoration material.

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Another example comes from an artist and professor Julia Luman.

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She says that it is not enough to intellectually understand the challenges we are facing.

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We also have to understand emotionally what the decisions we need to make are and how we can be brave enough to make the decisions that changed.

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Julia Lorman herself is very much speaking about the sea.

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She's also using seaweed as a material for her sculptures.

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And at the moment, you can find her sculpture, Hiroko, at the Glass House in Alexander Encanto in Helsinki.

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Very beautiful. Very, very interesting.

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I must say that Longman's project is certainly thought provoking and very timely when she had it displayed at this fiftieth World

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Economic Forum in Davos that was really impactful and really a desire for the for the world leaders to instead of just have a think tank,

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establish a do tank way of collaborating that is powerful, that's art is power in a way.

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Pavel, what is your take on the subject?

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Love what you said about stimulating Hope Day, I would say as long with prayer is for me personally is sustainability.

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Art is not fashion, not dispensable. Art is something permanent.

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A statement I would argue that art is the only true sustainable part of our modern life.

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The uprising trend of making art from or even only furniture indicates the direction where that is heading.

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It's good to remember that for hundreds of years, artists have seen nature as a value,

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as an observer or as an operator with a will of its own in our nature has always been admired,

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even back when its environment, just as a source of materials and as an experience.

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The experience uses human error as a human's own energy.

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Not other sources can be a way of relaxing or a method of lesser many adventures.

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And Michael Holliday's art makes the daily surroundings more vivid, and these goals can be reached without enormous use of new material or energy.

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Ecological crises demands. Rethinking our farming in all levels is built into the discourse and offers ways to critically observe society.

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The critical observations need to happen also on a personal level.

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This is a major shift in our culture. We need to change.

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What we are expecting from the world, which we use differs from the ways we use mass produced items.

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This is a way of thinking and consuming we should use in all levels of life.

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Wonderful. Yeah.

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Your statement, Pavo, when you say Art offers many adventures in Micra holidays, art makes the daily surroundings more vivid is absolutely appealing.

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This reminds me of a student's view of the need for cultural sustainability.

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He wrote that with the preservation of culture, we make sure our world will not be grey nor boring.

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Now, if culture is specifically, the art in this discussion enhances the quality of life,

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stimulates innovation, which in turn is an investment into the future.

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What are the roles, responsibilities of policy and decision makers in making art part of the sustainability discourse?

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Very difficult and challenging topics you have here. Maria,

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I would like to add to Pablo's idea of these many adventurous and micro holy days

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that those are actually perfect travel destinations for this pandemic time here.

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So I love the I love the concepts here. But back to Maria's question.

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First of all, top decision makers, politicians decide on laws.

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And Maria was talking about this also earlier in the podcast. And these laws frame our ways of living.

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And this is probably the most important way to make big and lasting changes.

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One example I must bring up here is the use of public art and as sort of the percentage principle,

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which is not in law in Finland, unlike in other like Sweden, for example.

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So there is a big thing we can we can work on.

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And one example I would like to point out is from a year EU level, a programme called New European Powerhouse,

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which is a collaborative interdisciplinary effort by creative minds and decision makers to build a beautiful, sustainable, inclusive future.

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And now the idea is open at the moment. So let's see how that will proceed with the funding.

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Call us where later. Later on. Very good.

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Hopefully, hopefully you get the funding. I will try that.

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Art and art studies can support individuals thinking and understanding more abstract phenomena.

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This is a decision makers should support and our education in schools in primary and in other levels.

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And decision makers should also enable sustainable choices in gaming and in everyday life.

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At the same time, this enables sustainable development to direct activities of consuming to our small,

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positive and tolerable ways is something that decision makers have to take seriously in society at the moment.

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So we have to like take these things really seriously. Decision makers have to guide us consumers and artists and people to make these decisions.

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That's something we will have to like.

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We have to share our responsibility, but also decision makers have to do some guidance and guide us to the right direction.

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All right. Very, very much. Yes. What I was thinking.

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I agree, but what I find important is that art is treated as an integral part of the society,

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not some sort of a feel good exception with its own logic.

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And exclusively positive outcomes, because when we talk about art and sustainability.

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We are often talking in very vague terms and often forgetting the two other dimensions of sustainability,

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that is the economic and the social and of course, so we need to define the sustainability of what and in the current environmental crisis.

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Of course, the environmental sustainability is where the focus is.

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However, when talking about art and sustainability, it might be a good idea also to pay attention to the sustainability of the art system in itself.

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And there I see a lot of serious issues right now, for instance, in Finland, because for the past, well,

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actually everywhere in the Western world for the past few decades,

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and there was an ever increasing number of people who strive to earn their living as artists.

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While the economy of the arts has not expanded at the same rate.

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Also, digitalisation has further accentuated this winner takes all logic has always been part of the economy of the arts.

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As a result, professional art has become a sphere of low income people,

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often women in extremely insecure temporary employment without proper safety net.

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Even in a welfare state like Finland, feeling of unfair treatment is pervasive.

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And contrary to other sectors of this modern gig economy,

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there's a strong professional identity that creates a kind of a blocking effect

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that prevents people from migrating to more secure or better paying jobs.

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And in my opinion, from my vantage point from this kind of organisation that funds art,

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I find that there's a lot of I mean, the situation within the field of arts is not sustainable as it is right now.

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Yes, I totally agree with the here that there is a lot of challenges to do in the in the art world at the moment.

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I would like to add that, of course, many artists themselves, they want art to be political or political in itself.

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There are many ways to act with strikes, with demonstrations to create attention which can change the course of history.

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Examples are endless.

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When we look back at art, design and architecture history, then there is also maybe a bit quieter ways which often might even have a stronger impact.

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The gatekeepers of art in institutions who make the actual choices of what art is presented, financed and supported.

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Do we encourage global equality, do it by an exhibit art for minorities, keeping gender in mind, or do we just rely on the big names in the art world?

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Do we prior to prior authorities art which activate sustainability?

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I think all choices can have an effect on what questions for each of those questions merit.

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A podcast, a discussion, you know. Well,

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I hope our listeners are being inspired to re-evaluate our cultural eco system and think how we can all

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contribute to strengthening our cultural heritage and potential both its national and worldwide appeal.

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Sustainability efforts are not merely a set of, you know, top to bottom directives.

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It's good if the EU will tell us something, it's good as well, if the UNICEF will tell us something,

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but a way of life that should be cultivated early on and amongst everyone.

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This is also when I think Pavo had actually mentioned art education should be supported from

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early on because it is something that you can instil in the children right to a very early age.

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But now we go back to the university setting and very concretely at Henkin in 2019,

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Hanken celebrated its 100th 10th anniversary and the overall theme was creativity.

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The university space was transformed into a gallery exhibiting the works of 13 Nordic artists.

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They were selected because the works represented values that are important for kids,

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such as high quality openness, sustainable development and Nordic identity.

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This art and residents exhibit in cooperation with Nordic contemporary art collection

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was the second time the university premises were used to display art back in 2017.

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There was a Victorio project by José Antonio Ochoa, a Mexican artist.

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In a sustainable world, every sector calls for collaboration for the greater good, care for the environment,

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redoubts in fair trade practises and sound ecological knowledge effects business strategies.

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As guests of the podcast series of Hanken, how can this discourse benefit a business school or more concretely,

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how can a business school benefit from art?

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Well, I would say that our education can give students a sense of time and history,

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art, and that's a memory, a long memory of society and humans that is longer than,

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for example, our political or economic memory that, let's face it, is quite short, but is also an indicator of deeper meanings in society.

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Society are creates understanding of one's own emotions and experience, and at the same time opens new perspectives to learning critical thinking.

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Students learn to offer customers other native unsustainable ways of consuming changes in our behaviour are more obvious than ever,

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and there is a youth change in the ways we are consuming.

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The study of sport, art, history and contemporary art is a good way to learn new ways of thinking.

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It may eventually help storytelling the whole structure of our capitalistic, capitalistic, monetary base consumers.

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And so the idea that has driven us to the U.S. of eco catastrophe,

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the contemporary US gain especially points out the faults in overconsumption and the ways we eat.

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Another are resources for me to talk about this, to talk about morals and ethics.

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And one question for me at least rises above all this moral right.

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Also economically, economically profitable.

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Yes, the main task of contemporary art is to question existing patterns of thinking and acting, which is the starting point for all innovation.

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This is also true in business.

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Economic decisions involve choices by a rational individual, but we are also aware that emotions and shared values influence our individual choices.

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In addition to economic results, we need to discuss the harder to measure social values,

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environmental impacts and ethical consequences of our choices.

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Art and creative practises do provide new approaches for expanding scientific and economic thinking.

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For example, at Autonomy at Alta University, the School of Business aims to create the participatory, open and low hierarchy,

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working and learning environment at the university's vision for public art is the question what a university is,

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what we are doing as part of society and what the public even means.

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A work of art is subject to continuous critical evaluation and should reflect the university's values such as courage and responsibility.

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A dialogue always opens up new perspective. Encounters with art may lead to a deeper exploration of the topics and approaches involved.

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Each individual work of art brings its own perspective. The collection.

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When professional artists work with certain teams that they have developed over decades when making art and by exploring their works,

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we can drill into both these teams and the artist's thoughts and emotions towards them.

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And I would like to refer to a report from 2019 by this built status of property

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that actually 75 percent of Finns would like to be part of their daily environment.

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Currently, there's a lot of the type of discourse where the sphere of influence of arts and the

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sphere where the art functions wants to be seen broader than it traditionally is.

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I mean, let's say the sort of people want to expand the field where art appears and functions in the society part of it.

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Part of this talk is legitimate in a sense that art is looking for a new new position in the world.

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But part of this world is simply artists looking for a way of earning their living and trying to get employed by non-traditional means.

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So that if we ask that, let's say that, like in this context, we may ask, what is the connexion between.

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Business and art, I would say that.

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Or let's say, what can business benefit from the arts, I would say that yes, it can, but it cannot as much as arts claims,

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because there's a lot of there is there is a lot of this kind of a simply that the talk that comes with the motivation of somebody

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trying to earn their living and the Finnish government trying to justify the fact that they have trained lots and lots of artists.

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But I think that what's important here is that what I really miss in my work is to build mutual

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understanding and Two-Way channels of communication between these two spheres of thinking.

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I mean, every artist should have a fundamental understanding of the economic theory.

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It's not enough to try to talk in terms of cliches that one learns from the TV news.

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Every economist should have a fundamental understanding of the phenomena that makes the economy of arts in many ways exceptional.

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I mean, indeed. I mean, there is economic I'm emphasising economic research about the economy of arts and arts.

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Economy is exceptional.

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I mean, if one wants to talk about the late string quartettes of Beethoven, it helps to have some basic understanding of the musical theory.

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And the same, of course, applies to the economy. One cannot talk meaningfully about economics without some commonly shared concepts.

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However, this is very much the case in the field of arts and the talk about money.

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There is a lot of it, and at the same time the understanding of the economic, legal and administrative fundamentals is quite a bit lacking.

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And as a result, the art talk and the money talk, they remain disconnected.

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There are too many artists who think that fundamentals of economic theory do not apply to their art.

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This is obviously false. On the other hand, there are people outside of the arts that are unaware of the features that they make.

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The art economy in many ways quite special. It would benefit the arts and the society as a whole to bridge this gap.

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And I would take this opportunity to recommend that art.

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The Arts University in Hong Kong should arrange a joint course, for instance,

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local money talk for the sceptic artist on how to beat the men in suits in their own game.

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Oh wow. That is lovely. Rabbi, that certainly is an excellent course title.

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Let's see if anyone from the academic council or any professor may want to take that challenge.

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OK, now, listening to each one of you, we realise many layers intertwined when we think of this,

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this podcast's keyboard's art as a creative process, art as an instrument for innovation and art with an associate economic structure.

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Through each one of our guests comments, we can conclude that the arts should be included in the sustainability discourse as a source,

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as an instrument, and it is a by product, as Otey summed up in one of her articles.

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The main task of contemporary art is to question existing patterns of thinking and acting, which is a starting point for all innovation.

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This is also true in business.

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Art and creative practises provide new approaches for expanding scientific and economic thinking with each one of our guests.

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We could go on and on because there were so many points that each one of you have brought up.

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But good things also have to end. So we are going now to conclude and say that indeed the arts must be woven into the current discourse of economic,

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ecological and social sustainability. To quote James, once again, without art, the whole idea of sustainability fails.

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Let us hope that all of our listeners would actually be able to create concrete steps in either in any of their fields in order to support this ideas.

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The podcast team and I would like to thank our guests, OTV, Telemachus and Pavo for their time,

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their insights and collaboration in this sustainability series.

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And stay tuned for the next topic. Thank you to all of.