1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:07,159 Sustainability unwrapped a conversational podcast about responsibility, 2 00:00:07,159 --> 00:00:12,715 ethics, inequalities, climate change and other challenges 3 00:00:12,715 --> 00:00:18,792 of our times where science needs practice to think about the world and 4 00:00:18,792 --> 00:00:24,380 how to make our Society more sustainable one podcast at a time. 5 00:00:24,380 --> 00:00:31,609 Hello everyone and you are so very welcome to our podcast about RICO. 6 00:00:31,609 --> 00:00:36,427 Where we first will give you some background info what record 7 00:00:36,427 --> 00:00:41,346 is all about and then we have a guest that is a producer at RICO. 8 00:00:41,346 --> 00:00:47,213 And we'll tell you a bit about his perspective on it and we, the producers of 9 00:00:47,213 --> 00:00:53,648 the podcast is me Eleanor back third year students at home can School of Economics. 10 00:00:53,648 --> 00:00:58,660 My relationship with food has changed during the years. 11 00:00:58,660 --> 00:01:04,517 I'm a vegetarian right now and I try to eat locally produced food but 12 00:01:04,517 --> 00:01:09,450 that is when my budget allows it and eating with awareness 13 00:01:09,450 --> 00:01:13,903 of the earth and its assets is very important to me. 14 00:01:13,903 --> 00:01:17,435 >> Yeah and hi my name is Sophie Sundquist. 15 00:01:17,435 --> 00:01:22,072 I am currently studying the first year at my Master studies at Honkin in Vaasa. 16 00:01:22,072 --> 00:01:25,291 I'm personally interested in sustainability and 17 00:01:25,291 --> 00:01:29,643 have written my bachelor thesis on the subject of circular economy. 18 00:01:29,643 --> 00:01:34,481 In my everyday life, I always try to buy locally produced food to minimize my 19 00:01:34,481 --> 00:01:39,094 carbon footprint on the planet as well as organic food, eating local and 20 00:01:39,094 --> 00:01:42,217 organic feels to me, fresh, healthy and good. 21 00:01:42,217 --> 00:01:47,525 >> And I'm [INAUDIBLE] >> I'm a master student at Honkin 22 00:01:47,525 --> 00:01:52,361 in Vaasa and I prefer a plant based food that is locally produced. 23 00:01:52,361 --> 00:01:57,534 And I also try to if you choose eco products when it faced budget of a student 24 00:01:57,534 --> 00:02:02,374 or would like to see a sustainable development in the food industry, 25 00:02:02,374 --> 00:02:05,629 especially in a more sustainable industry for 26 00:02:05,629 --> 00:02:09,234 animal products as well for plant based products. 27 00:02:09,234 --> 00:02:10,052 >> Yes. 28 00:02:10,052 --> 00:02:15,079 And on that note, I'm going to mention what record means Swedish. 29 00:02:15,079 --> 00:02:19,185 >> It stands for real consumption shown in Finnish, 30 00:02:19,185 --> 00:02:22,909 [FOREIGN], which means proper consumption. 31 00:02:22,909 --> 00:02:28,142 Also in the spoken language RICO means fair, decent and nice. 32 00:02:28,142 --> 00:02:32,508 So this is what record is all about proper fair and good consumptions 33 00:02:32,508 --> 00:02:38,101 Practically Rico means that meatballs are transferred directly between the producer 34 00:02:38,101 --> 00:02:43,005 and the consumer without intermediaries, the products are transferred by 35 00:02:43,005 --> 00:02:48,316 a local record rings that are organized a couple times a month in different areas. 36 00:02:48,316 --> 00:02:53,466 In 2018 there were approximately 119 recordings in Finland and 37 00:02:53,466 --> 00:02:56,138 the number is steadily increasing. 38 00:02:56,138 --> 00:03:02,400 >> Revco can be categorized as a self organized grassroots led food network. 39 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:07,235 To break it down self organized means that a collective of individuals come 40 00:03:07,235 --> 00:03:11,996 together for the same cause grassroots means a sustainable solution that 41 00:03:11,996 --> 00:03:15,624 supports the local situation, values and interests. 42 00:03:15,624 --> 00:03:21,302 It refers to the d growth movement that challenges conventional ways of producing 43 00:03:21,302 --> 00:03:26,649 record is one by a community, a form of network that chooses the direction and 44 00:03:26,649 --> 00:03:29,793 the activity of the grassroots innovation. 45 00:03:29,793 --> 00:03:35,459 Self organized grassroots innovations increases the awareness of sustainability. 46 00:03:35,459 --> 00:03:38,980 It creates an alternative to conventional methods and 47 00:03:38,980 --> 00:03:43,963 it supports innovations and can be used to support minorities in the market. 48 00:03:43,963 --> 00:03:49,746 Nature and environmental aspects are brought back to grassroots innovations, 49 00:03:49,746 --> 00:03:53,743 which is beneficial for the sport, sustainability and 50 00:03:53,743 --> 00:03:58,005 benefits social and psychological well being for humans. 51 00:03:58,005 --> 00:04:02,391 >> Thank you so very much Sophie Anania for that information. 52 00:04:02,391 --> 00:04:06,930 And now let's listen to the interview with our guests. 53 00:04:06,930 --> 00:04:07,910 >> Okay. 54 00:04:07,910 --> 00:04:10,274 Hello wonders norbac sheep, 55 00:04:10,274 --> 00:04:15,103 former Member of the Parliament, dad of five kids husband. 56 00:04:15,103 --> 00:04:16,839 And the list goes on. 57 00:04:16,839 --> 00:04:21,173 But in your own words, can you tell me a bit about yourself? 58 00:04:21,173 --> 00:04:25,153 >> Yes, you told, you told us a lot about me. 59 00:04:25,153 --> 00:04:28,736 I have been studying agriculture. 60 00:04:28,736 --> 00:04:32,927 I have been working with different different types of works. 61 00:04:32,927 --> 00:04:38,514 I have been in education, I have been farmers advisors organization and 62 00:04:38,514 --> 00:04:44,392 I have been in the slaughter industry, working in the slaughter industry. 63 00:04:44,392 --> 00:04:50,776 I have a strong belief that our nature is fantastic thing that give us food and 64 00:04:50,776 --> 00:04:55,264 many other things but we have to handle it with care and 65 00:04:55,264 --> 00:04:58,889 think about how we, how we use the nature. 66 00:04:58,889 --> 00:05:04,424 My concern about the nature is that we all very often we think 67 00:05:04,424 --> 00:05:09,860 that if you do one thing, it only happens one other thing. 68 00:05:09,860 --> 00:05:14,154 But in the nature is the nature is very complex and 69 00:05:14,154 --> 00:05:18,762 if you do one thing, it happens many other things and 70 00:05:18,762 --> 00:05:22,847 this is my concern in the food production, but 71 00:05:22,847 --> 00:05:27,982 also when when we are discussing about the environment and 72 00:05:27,982 --> 00:05:29,776 the climate issue >> So 73 00:05:29,776 --> 00:05:34,109 sustainable thinking is a very important thing for you. 74 00:05:34,109 --> 00:05:39,820 >> Yes >> Now a closer look on you. 75 00:05:39,820 --> 00:05:44,247 Do you have important Milestones during the last 10 years? 76 00:05:44,247 --> 00:05:49,004 If you think about the last 10 years, what has been like important milestones for? 77 00:05:49,004 --> 00:05:51,428 You can tell me a bit about them? 78 00:05:51,428 --> 00:05:53,262 >> I have many of them. 79 00:05:53,262 --> 00:05:58,422 I started I started with with my wife and my family, 80 00:05:58,422 --> 00:06:05,502 I started the ship farm eight years ago, excuse me nine years ago and 81 00:06:05,502 --> 00:06:10,062 this was a dream that we have had my wife and I, 82 00:06:10,062 --> 00:06:16,182 we both worked in other fields but we were part time farmers, 83 00:06:16,182 --> 00:06:21,222 conventional production, but we taught thought 84 00:06:21,222 --> 00:06:26,035 if if we what we really want to do is the farming. 85 00:06:26,035 --> 00:06:31,016 When I started farming, I have decided and and we have decided together 86 00:06:31,016 --> 00:06:35,430 in our family because I have been changing work for many times. 87 00:06:35,430 --> 00:06:40,592 So I thought this will be my work for 88 00:06:40,592 --> 00:06:44,687 the rest of my active life. 89 00:06:44,687 --> 00:06:49,896 But then then the political discussion started 90 00:06:49,896 --> 00:06:54,199 in a way that I wouldn't satisfy with. 91 00:06:54,199 --> 00:07:01,436 We have had a government in Finland that that was worry in my point of view, 92 00:07:01,436 --> 00:07:05,523 didn't think about all of our society and 93 00:07:05,523 --> 00:07:10,894 I also was confronted with many issues in the farming 94 00:07:10,894 --> 00:07:15,126 field that I thought was was not good good. 95 00:07:15,126 --> 00:07:20,910 And 11 of these was that we have have a wolf problem in our area and 96 00:07:20,910 --> 00:07:25,641 we had a wolf attack on our farm and I then we didn't get 97 00:07:25,641 --> 00:07:30,394 any help from the authorities or from the community. 98 00:07:30,394 --> 00:07:33,471 Yes, just the hunters and and 99 00:07:33,471 --> 00:07:39,503 people on the people on the ground ground was helping us and 100 00:07:39,503 --> 00:07:43,215 telling us what what this is about. 101 00:07:43,215 --> 00:07:48,259 And then I noticed that in when we discuss food 102 00:07:48,259 --> 00:07:53,172 production and the environmental issues, 103 00:07:53,172 --> 00:07:58,763 we usually don't think about the whole picture. 104 00:07:58,763 --> 00:08:01,378 We just take 1 piece. 105 00:08:01,378 --> 00:08:03,344 And I think what shall we do with evolve. 106 00:08:03,344 --> 00:08:07,486 Yes they are they are under under press and 107 00:08:07,486 --> 00:08:11,149 we have to, we have to look after so so 108 00:08:11,149 --> 00:08:16,611 they don't get go away from our country or our planet. 109 00:08:16,611 --> 00:08:18,241 But we have to do. 110 00:08:18,241 --> 00:08:21,548 My point of view is that we have to do it in a way. 111 00:08:21,548 --> 00:08:24,881 So also farmers and the local people can live. 112 00:08:24,881 --> 00:08:26,570 This is one example. 113 00:08:26,570 --> 00:08:30,955 So nowadays I'm a member of the Parliament by my special 114 00:08:30,955 --> 00:08:35,342 fields here are farming, environmental issues and and 115 00:08:35,342 --> 00:08:40,865 the education is education issues because I have also been a teacher. 116 00:08:40,865 --> 00:08:47,750 So my life has been have gone through quite big changes the last 10 years. 117 00:08:47,750 --> 00:08:48,904 >> Yes. 118 00:08:48,904 --> 00:08:52,677 So you would say that the question about the world, 119 00:08:52,677 --> 00:08:57,080 what was what got you interested in politics at that point? 120 00:08:57,080 --> 00:09:01,642 Or was that the main reason why you got into politics? 121 00:09:01,642 --> 00:09:03,904 No, it wasn't the main reason, >> But 122 00:09:03,904 --> 00:09:08,312 it was a symbol of how we discuss just things about climate and 123 00:09:08,312 --> 00:09:13,510 environment and food production that we don't see the whole picture. 124 00:09:13,510 --> 00:09:18,273 It was of course not the only issue, but it was, 125 00:09:18,273 --> 00:09:21,966 it became some kind of symbol for me, 126 00:09:21,966 --> 00:09:26,256 in which direction our society is going and 127 00:09:26,256 --> 00:09:31,618 it was going in a way that that I think we need to discuss 128 00:09:31,618 --> 00:09:37,219 how things really depends on on each other that we can't 129 00:09:37,219 --> 00:09:42,146 see the word in a very, very small point of view. 130 00:09:42,146 --> 00:09:44,400 We have to see the whole picture and 131 00:09:44,400 --> 00:09:47,603 this is of course in every issue very important. 132 00:09:47,603 --> 00:09:53,537 But I will say when when we discuss environmental and climate policy, 133 00:09:53,537 --> 00:09:59,281 it's more important because our nature, our planet is so unique. 134 00:09:59,281 --> 00:10:03,173 So we don't have the whole picture clear for us yet. 135 00:10:03,173 --> 00:10:07,752 But we have we have to see all the all the issues that is happening if they decide 136 00:10:07,752 --> 00:10:08,531 something. 137 00:10:08,531 --> 00:10:09,999 >> Thank you. 138 00:10:09,999 --> 00:10:12,179 I totally agree. 139 00:10:12,179 --> 00:10:17,210 So now to move into the subject of it what kind of 140 00:10:17,210 --> 00:10:22,114 factors encourage you to start up a recording 141 00:10:22,114 --> 00:10:26,383 in Vaasa and who did you have help from? 142 00:10:26,383 --> 00:10:28,896 >> The start of the recordings? 143 00:10:28,896 --> 00:10:35,795 It was quite in time when we started our production shipshape made production. 144 00:10:35,795 --> 00:10:41,922 And was in the bartering, we was in it from the beginning, 145 00:10:41,922 --> 00:10:46,925 we had the people, the people that was starting 146 00:10:46,925 --> 00:10:52,678 this wanted some farmers that came come to a meeting and 147 00:10:52,678 --> 00:10:56,829 there we we decided to start this ring. 148 00:10:56,829 --> 00:11:02,379 And of course the group with, with Maria Fuentes for 149 00:11:02,379 --> 00:11:08,306 instance and and the smell of snail man who was the father 150 00:11:08,306 --> 00:11:14,631 of the idea was convincing us that this will be a good thing. 151 00:11:14,631 --> 00:11:17,241 We, they were very helpful. 152 00:11:17,241 --> 00:11:22,301 Also the school kids academy was helpful because they 153 00:11:22,301 --> 00:11:28,607 have was in this project and we could start the ring on their field. 154 00:11:28,607 --> 00:11:33,976 So, we had a place to be but the start wasn't so 155 00:11:33,976 --> 00:11:40,176 amazing and so great that someone maybe be thinking, 156 00:11:40,176 --> 00:11:45,962 I remember the first day was delivering the food, 157 00:11:45,962 --> 00:11:51,610 I think there was about five or 10 consumers and 158 00:11:51,610 --> 00:11:55,366 the start was quite difficult. 159 00:11:55,366 --> 00:11:59,035 We we were 34, I don't remember maybe 55 or 160 00:11:59,035 --> 00:12:04,655 six farmers from the beginning, but we thought this will be a good idea. 161 00:12:04,655 --> 00:12:09,970 So we continued the consumers, more consumers were coming and 162 00:12:09,970 --> 00:12:14,982 we could see that we are going forward in this, we went on and 163 00:12:14,982 --> 00:12:20,295 went on, we are the only farmers in the watering, Northwest, 164 00:12:20,295 --> 00:12:26,645 only farm in the watering that has been in the watering from the beginning. 165 00:12:26,645 --> 00:12:31,795 So, after half year, there was happening something and 166 00:12:31,795 --> 00:12:38,446 the ring started to grow and then it moved place into the city of Mombasa and 167 00:12:38,446 --> 00:12:45,549 this was very, very important I think because the place is always important. 168 00:12:45,549 --> 00:12:50,648 So the consumers can find you and think it's it's easy to get to the place. 169 00:12:50,648 --> 00:12:54,592 So then it started to grow rapidly and 170 00:12:54,592 --> 00:13:01,974 it was the watering was very big and have a many consumers were in it and 171 00:13:01,974 --> 00:13:08,614 many more farmers went into the ring and the supply was wider. 172 00:13:08,614 --> 00:13:14,186 You could get more more different foodstuff from the ring. 173 00:13:14,186 --> 00:13:16,547 So it was very positive. 174 00:13:16,547 --> 00:13:22,218 But then when it, went on in some, I don't remember exactly, 175 00:13:22,218 --> 00:13:27,996 but there was a time when after the big when consumers went away, 176 00:13:27,996 --> 00:13:35,059 I think expectations of the what this is maybe wouldn't wasn't fulfilled for 177 00:13:35,059 --> 00:13:42,228 all consumers, many consumer thought that they can get cheap food in this way, 178 00:13:42,228 --> 00:13:46,852 but they don't, this is not from my point of view. 179 00:13:46,852 --> 00:13:52,105 The right right way to think about RICO is a place where you get fresh food, 180 00:13:52,105 --> 00:13:56,616 you get quality food and you get food directly from the farmer. 181 00:13:56,616 --> 00:14:01,262 But the work to get the food to the market is not less than 182 00:14:01,262 --> 00:14:04,294 when you buy it from from the store. 183 00:14:04,294 --> 00:14:10,018 When you are a RICO farmer, work starts with doing the posting on Facebook and 184 00:14:10,018 --> 00:14:14,524 you have to go through what products you have have this week. 185 00:14:14,524 --> 00:14:19,311 And you have to follow the Facebook posting all the time. 186 00:14:19,311 --> 00:14:23,811 So you can inform the consumers if you have the product and 187 00:14:23,811 --> 00:14:28,985 if they have questions after that, you have to put in in package. 188 00:14:28,985 --> 00:14:33,693 It's do you usually record week for us is nowadays, 189 00:14:33,693 --> 00:14:40,114 once a month before I went to the parliament, it was every second week. 190 00:14:40,114 --> 00:14:46,300 So for one person, the world to get the product from us to the consumer, 191 00:14:46,300 --> 00:14:51,147 I think the world for one person is about 80% of normal 192 00:14:51,147 --> 00:14:56,602 working time because you do all the things that the whole. 193 00:14:56,602 --> 00:14:59,141 Supply chain do normally. 194 00:14:59,141 --> 00:15:04,375 And about the price I have always said, I don't understand why 195 00:15:04,375 --> 00:15:10,101 the farmers have to do the work that you should have done in the shop and 196 00:15:10,101 --> 00:15:14,776 in the other parts of the chain cheaper than the others. 197 00:15:14,776 --> 00:15:21,206 So, I think the price level should be the same as in shops, the recurring. 198 00:15:21,206 --> 00:15:26,527 But important is for the consumer that you know for 199 00:15:26,527 --> 00:15:30,459 real from where your food is coming. 200 00:15:30,459 --> 00:15:32,662 You know, for real that is fresh. 201 00:15:32,662 --> 00:15:39,381 And you know for real that the farmers get a bigger part of the money. 202 00:15:39,381 --> 00:15:45,017 And that's because the farmers do more work for it. 203 00:15:45,017 --> 00:15:53,118 Another problem that I have seen under this years is when you get too many for 204 00:15:53,118 --> 00:15:57,234 example, egg producers in one ring, 205 00:15:57,234 --> 00:16:02,525 the weekly sell for each farmer is going too low. 206 00:16:02,525 --> 00:16:05,251 And if this is going on for a long time, 207 00:16:05,251 --> 00:16:09,354 maybe the ring wouldn't have any egg supplier anymore. 208 00:16:09,354 --> 00:16:13,720 And this is one of the issues that have been problem for many rings. 209 00:16:13,720 --> 00:16:18,722 And many rings don't have a beef meat because of this issue today. 210 00:16:18,722 --> 00:16:24,117 I understand the other side of the consumers want 211 00:16:24,117 --> 00:16:30,038 to have a possibility to buy from different farmers, 212 00:16:30,038 --> 00:16:34,261 but the farmer have a certain volume. 213 00:16:34,261 --> 00:16:37,998 So it will become profitable for the farmer. 214 00:16:37,998 --> 00:16:42,001 >> Like producers go out of the ring because it's not worth it anymore 215 00:16:42,001 --> 00:16:44,297 regarding the text and the beef meat. 216 00:16:44,297 --> 00:16:46,218 >> Yeah. >> So thank you very much. 217 00:16:46,218 --> 00:16:48,540 That was a very fulfilling answer. 218 00:16:48,540 --> 00:16:50,481 So one more question. 219 00:16:50,481 --> 00:16:55,348 Were there any resistance to start up a recurring except from not having 220 00:16:55,348 --> 00:16:59,739 that many consumers at the beginning but from the city of Balsa? 221 00:16:59,739 --> 00:17:01,895 Did they help you in any way? 222 00:17:01,895 --> 00:17:05,672 You said that later on you got to move into the city. 223 00:17:05,672 --> 00:17:10,518 But before that did you have any from the city or in any way? 224 00:17:10,518 --> 00:17:14,106 >> I think here the group with Ms. 225 00:17:14,106 --> 00:17:20,874 Snowmen in charge from the beginning did a very good work. 226 00:17:20,874 --> 00:17:27,978 So in the whole the authorities have been very positive to this. 227 00:17:27,978 --> 00:17:32,545 I have heard about places where there have been some problems but 228 00:17:32,545 --> 00:17:36,191 the authorities have been quite positive to this. 229 00:17:36,191 --> 00:17:40,920 And I think the the society as a whole have 230 00:17:40,920 --> 00:17:45,926 wanted that this kind of food salary will be 231 00:17:45,926 --> 00:17:50,671 good as an alternative to the other way. 232 00:17:50,671 --> 00:17:56,444 So one point of view here is when we got the pandemic Corona, 233 00:17:56,444 --> 00:18:03,962 it was a discussion could this record continue because of the restrictions. 234 00:18:03,962 --> 00:18:09,230 But there was a decision taken by the authorities 235 00:18:09,230 --> 00:18:15,922 that record is compatible with normally food distribution. 236 00:18:15,922 --> 00:18:20,928 So we were able to continue because all other places in 237 00:18:20,928 --> 00:18:27,284 the in the society we had to have our restrictions about how we do it. 238 00:18:27,284 --> 00:18:29,044 But it could continue. 239 00:18:29,044 --> 00:18:34,342 And this was from my point of view very clear signal that 240 00:18:34,342 --> 00:18:41,953 authorities is looking at the record as a part of our food supply change today. 241 00:18:41,953 --> 00:18:46,375 So I haven't noticed the bigger issues. 242 00:18:46,375 --> 00:18:52,916 Of course there have been smaller issues that have have been discussing. 243 00:18:52,916 --> 00:18:57,190 I know in some cities where where you have, 244 00:18:57,190 --> 00:19:01,362 I don't know what is in English [FOREIGN]. 245 00:19:01,362 --> 00:19:06,123 The sellers there have have been questioning if 246 00:19:06,123 --> 00:19:09,455 this is fair play to do this way and 247 00:19:09,455 --> 00:19:14,825 how our record are controlled from the authorities. 248 00:19:14,825 --> 00:19:18,115 But these issues have been solved. 249 00:19:18,115 --> 00:19:24,815 And I don't see that there is problems about this today. 250 00:19:24,815 --> 00:19:29,986 The record is, when you are delivering at record 251 00:19:29,986 --> 00:19:36,432 you don't do business then the business you do on Facebook. 252 00:19:36,432 --> 00:19:41,188 And it means that the day the evening when you're 253 00:19:41,188 --> 00:19:45,947 delivering your product it's just a delivery. 254 00:19:45,947 --> 00:19:49,434 When you order, you do the buying of the product. 255 00:19:49,434 --> 00:19:54,707 And this means that you're not selling when 256 00:19:54,707 --> 00:20:01,132 the delivery occasion is the selling is done before. 257 00:20:01,132 --> 00:20:06,060 When we started it was thought that the payment had been done before 258 00:20:06,060 --> 00:20:07,827 before delivery also. 259 00:20:07,827 --> 00:20:10,883 But this wasn't working because for 260 00:20:10,883 --> 00:20:16,214 instance we who are selling meat that are packed by handicraft. 261 00:20:16,214 --> 00:20:24,123 If we have our our mincemeat package is 500 g. 262 00:20:24,123 --> 00:20:27,375 But when it's packed by hand, 263 00:20:27,375 --> 00:20:32,263 the package can vary from 490 g to 510 g. 264 00:20:32,263 --> 00:20:37,186 And then it's difficult to get the payment in advance because you 265 00:20:37,186 --> 00:20:40,596 don't know the final weight of the product. 266 00:20:40,596 --> 00:20:43,551 That's one example why it didn't work. 267 00:20:43,551 --> 00:20:47,988 This system when when you haven't paid before have some problems. 268 00:20:47,988 --> 00:20:51,872 They're not big, but they can be harmful. 269 00:20:51,872 --> 00:20:55,500 Some consumers border but they don't come and pick it up. 270 00:20:55,500 --> 00:21:01,296 And if you have a product for example, that we have when we get Eastern, 271 00:21:01,296 --> 00:21:04,785 let me we can sell everything that we have. 272 00:21:04,785 --> 00:21:07,439 And it's very bad for us. 273 00:21:07,439 --> 00:21:12,485 And of course for the consumers that don't get the land meat to to Eastern. 274 00:21:12,485 --> 00:21:17,676 So, if someone don't pick up the product, it's a problem. 275 00:21:17,676 --> 00:21:18,809 It's not a big problem. 276 00:21:18,809 --> 00:21:23,868 And and it has gotten much better in when the watering growth and 277 00:21:23,868 --> 00:21:26,744 the rings are in the growing phase. 278 00:21:26,744 --> 00:21:29,679 And then this problem will occur. 279 00:21:29,679 --> 00:21:32,300 But not solving. 280 00:21:32,300 --> 00:21:35,479 For instance, week my wife was here in Helsinki. 281 00:21:35,479 --> 00:21:39,868 We have five rings here that we serve and 282 00:21:39,868 --> 00:21:47,058 we had about 50 customers and one didn't pick up the product. 283 00:21:47,058 --> 00:21:48,964 So, it's not a big problem. 284 00:21:48,964 --> 00:21:53,643 And if you don't have have lack of your real products, 285 00:21:53,643 --> 00:21:56,298 then it's not so big problem. 286 00:21:56,298 --> 00:22:00,204 But this is one problem that we have noticed. 287 00:22:00,204 --> 00:22:02,465 >> A good way into next question. 288 00:22:02,465 --> 00:22:07,352 How do you ensure that the producers selling their groceries at Reco have 289 00:22:07,352 --> 00:22:10,969 a sustainable production and that they are close by? 290 00:22:10,969 --> 00:22:16,349 So do you have some kind of contract or how do you ensure? 291 00:22:16,349 --> 00:22:20,230 >> It varies from, Reco to Reco. 292 00:22:20,230 --> 00:22:22,179 The system goes from that. 293 00:22:22,179 --> 00:22:25,946 There is a group that is handling the group. 294 00:22:25,946 --> 00:22:31,505 And they have to accept you so you can sell in the ring. 295 00:22:31,505 --> 00:22:36,732 And different rings control the farmers in different ways. 296 00:22:36,732 --> 00:22:41,897 If you think we are also part of the net metering locally, 297 00:22:41,897 --> 00:22:45,340 I think the people there know us and and 298 00:22:45,340 --> 00:22:49,981 they know our farm and they haven't asked so much. 299 00:22:49,981 --> 00:22:54,244 But in the Helsinki rings, when you want to be a producer or 300 00:22:54,244 --> 00:22:59,119 a salary you have to write a paper about what you are doing and so on. 301 00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:02,932 And then you have to have the authorities papers that you that you need. 302 00:23:02,932 --> 00:23:06,540 For example, for us when we are organic producers, 303 00:23:06,540 --> 00:23:11,305 we have to deliver our papers that we are organic producers and so on. 304 00:23:11,305 --> 00:23:19,641 And I haven't seen the problem when you come to this issue in in Austria-Bosnia. 305 00:23:19,641 --> 00:23:24,504 But here in Helsinki rings there have been problem for example. 306 00:23:24,504 --> 00:23:28,714 But they have have been handled and I don't see that as a problem. 307 00:23:28,714 --> 00:23:32,288 Then if you go that is local. 308 00:23:32,288 --> 00:23:38,121 Here, we also the Reco rings have have have a different income to the issue. 309 00:23:38,121 --> 00:23:41,212 In Austin-Bosnia posturing that ring, 310 00:23:41,212 --> 00:23:45,992 they have have decided that you have to come from a certain area. 311 00:23:45,992 --> 00:23:50,373 So you can can be concerned as a local producer. 312 00:23:50,373 --> 00:23:55,261 Here in Helsinki they have another point of view and it's quite understandable. 313 00:23:55,261 --> 00:24:00,609 I don't see much sheep farms here when you work on Monday in India or 314 00:24:00,609 --> 00:24:02,817 in other parts of the town. 315 00:24:02,817 --> 00:24:08,534 So here here are a big part of the consumers, but not any farmers. 316 00:24:08,534 --> 00:24:11,776 So here they got another point of view. 317 00:24:11,776 --> 00:24:16,915 They more look at that you are handicraft, not too necessary 318 00:24:16,915 --> 00:24:22,077 small producer, but that you have this direct connection. 319 00:24:22,077 --> 00:24:27,462 I also see a different products here in here in Helsinki rings. 320 00:24:27,462 --> 00:24:34,045 You have much more small bakeries, small sausage factories, 321 00:24:34,045 --> 00:24:40,017 even coffee, local coffee factory are here in the ring. 322 00:24:40,017 --> 00:24:46,105 In Austria Bosnia you have small bakeries of course, and you have others. 323 00:24:46,105 --> 00:24:50,753 But it's more the farmers that are active in 324 00:24:50,753 --> 00:24:56,164 the countryside in rings than in here in Helsinki. 325 00:24:56,164 --> 00:24:58,999 But I think this is a good thing, 326 00:24:58,999 --> 00:25:04,992 the ring have to make its own decisions about this food production. 327 00:25:04,992 --> 00:25:08,482 It's quite hard under authority control. 328 00:25:08,482 --> 00:25:14,154 So I don't see the record have have any reason to more controls 329 00:25:14,154 --> 00:25:19,076 than the seller really sells the their own products. 330 00:25:19,076 --> 00:25:23,697 And that they are produced as you say. 331 00:25:23,697 --> 00:25:28,800 I haven't seen for example, when we talk organic production, 332 00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:33,533 I have seen sometimes not often and it's not a big problem. 333 00:25:33,533 --> 00:25:38,072 But I've seen farmers that have said that they are near organic production. 334 00:25:38,072 --> 00:25:40,919 But you can't be near organic production. 335 00:25:40,919 --> 00:25:44,161 You either are organic producer or you are not. 336 00:25:44,161 --> 00:25:48,273 And these kind of problems can can sometimes occur. 337 00:25:48,273 --> 00:25:53,603 But I think the administration of the group handle these things very well, 338 00:25:53,603 --> 00:25:56,235 very well in all rings that we are in. 339 00:25:56,235 --> 00:25:58,288 So, I don't see it as a problem. 340 00:25:58,288 --> 00:26:00,024 And my point of view, 341 00:26:00,024 --> 00:26:05,916 the consumer can be quite secure that the product is what is it said to be. 342 00:26:05,916 --> 00:26:11,762 And I think the risk in other food supply meant changes are bigger than in Reco. 343 00:26:11,762 --> 00:26:14,678 No system is complete, no system is perfect. 344 00:26:14,678 --> 00:26:18,729 But I think the Reco is one of the best from this point of view. 345 00:26:18,729 --> 00:26:21,315 >> How could you improve today's Reco rings? 346 00:26:21,315 --> 00:26:23,486 Do you have any suggestions? 347 00:26:23,486 --> 00:26:27,591 You have mentioned some already here when you've been talking, but 348 00:26:27,591 --> 00:26:32,204 do you have any like concrete suggestions that you have been thinking about? 349 00:26:32,204 --> 00:26:34,724 >> I don't have concrete suggestions. 350 00:26:34,724 --> 00:26:40,806 I think every ring have to find their own way. 351 00:26:40,806 --> 00:26:45,345 But they can't forget the ground of why and 352 00:26:45,345 --> 00:26:49,390 how the Reco is thought to be managed. 353 00:26:49,390 --> 00:26:53,206 But I think every ring has had to find their own way. 354 00:26:53,206 --> 00:27:00,215 How to get more consumers, how to get more producers and how they can grow. 355 00:27:00,215 --> 00:27:07,250 And I think Reco will be will grow in some parts of Finland. 356 00:27:07,250 --> 00:27:10,785 Maybe it's going back in some parts, but 357 00:27:10,785 --> 00:27:16,250 I think Reco has come to stay for quite a long time in our society. 358 00:27:16,250 --> 00:27:22,921 And good thing and that is it has also been the start point for 359 00:27:22,921 --> 00:27:30,538 many other kinds of distribution of goods from farmer to consumer. 360 00:27:30,538 --> 00:27:32,956 For example, in Austria-Bosnia, 361 00:27:32,956 --> 00:27:38,264 we have not many farm driving companies today that deliver directly to the door. 362 00:27:38,264 --> 00:27:41,678 And you can order the farmers products. 363 00:27:41,678 --> 00:27:47,331 One of it has also other products that are consumed directly from the farm. 364 00:27:47,331 --> 00:27:51,500 But this kind of evolution is good for 365 00:27:51,500 --> 00:27:55,675 the whole food supply meant change. 366 00:27:55,675 --> 00:28:00,412 We have to remember but the main part of the food supply 367 00:28:00,412 --> 00:28:05,150 meant will in the future also go through what if you can 368 00:28:05,150 --> 00:28:09,810 call it official or food changes that our industry. 369 00:28:09,810 --> 00:28:16,733 Because this is just an alternative for farmers and consumers. 370 00:28:16,733 --> 00:28:24,690 But the big Williams will in the future also go through the same Finland, 371 00:28:24,690 --> 00:28:29,000 the big change S co and little and so on. 372 00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:34,301 It's very hard to get the food security for the whole country and 373 00:28:34,301 --> 00:28:37,849 so on by this kind of distribution system. 374 00:28:37,849 --> 00:28:41,702 But it's so important it's an alternative for the consumers and 375 00:28:41,702 --> 00:28:45,216 producers that are interesting in doing it in another way. 376 00:28:45,216 --> 00:28:47,436 And I think it can grow much more. 377 00:28:47,436 --> 00:28:53,357 Quite convinced that more and more we are going to hold or delivery. 378 00:28:53,357 --> 00:28:58,298 Of course, now when we have the pandemic, it has increased in many ways,. 379 00:28:58,298 --> 00:29:02,903 But I think this is a this will continue after the pandemic. 380 00:29:02,903 --> 00:29:09,497 And I think this will be the new kind of Reco that is not in the Reco system. 381 00:29:09,497 --> 00:29:12,491 But another compliment how we can get food. 382 00:29:12,491 --> 00:29:16,966 That will not mean that the record will go down because some of 383 00:29:16,966 --> 00:29:21,528 the consumers want to come out want to meet the farmer in face, 384 00:29:21,528 --> 00:29:26,301 want to discuss with the farmer and we want to meet other people. 385 00:29:26,301 --> 00:29:28,886 For many people, I have notice it's happening. 386 00:29:28,886 --> 00:29:34,650 They take the whole family, to take the dog with them and they go and look. 387 00:29:34,650 --> 00:29:40,337 It's like a market but outside and the products are ordered in advance. 388 00:29:40,337 --> 00:29:43,532 >> Yeah it sounds like a really nice concept. 389 00:29:43,532 --> 00:29:49,933 Now to move into a bit more overall the food industry and so on. 390 00:29:49,933 --> 00:29:54,616 So what do you think could be improved regarding sustainability in the food 391 00:29:54,616 --> 00:29:55,370 industry? 392 00:29:55,370 --> 00:29:57,439 Yeah, we've been talking a bit about it. 393 00:29:57,439 --> 00:30:00,283 But do you have any suggestions there? 394 00:30:00,283 --> 00:30:02,880 >> Food production is a global issue. 395 00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:06,976 Problem that we have had for a long time. 396 00:30:06,976 --> 00:30:12,313 We have parts of the world, many countries where we have food enough, 397 00:30:12,313 --> 00:30:15,394 not only enough, but more than we need. 398 00:30:15,394 --> 00:30:17,067 Finland is one of those and 399 00:30:17,067 --> 00:30:20,803 then we have parts of the world where we have a lack of food. 400 00:30:20,803 --> 00:30:24,628 We should be able to food the whole world, in the producing, 401 00:30:24,628 --> 00:30:26,434 we have to think more local. 402 00:30:26,434 --> 00:30:31,273 I think every country that has the possibility to produce their own 403 00:30:31,273 --> 00:30:32,665 food should do it. 404 00:30:32,665 --> 00:30:37,728 I think we have got something wrong when we eat Salmon from Norway 405 00:30:37,728 --> 00:30:43,187 that have been handled in China and then travel back here to Finland. 406 00:30:43,187 --> 00:30:48,098 With local here I mean on country based even bigger areas, but 407 00:30:48,098 --> 00:30:54,251 I think we have to think in areas and every area have to produce their own food. 408 00:30:54,251 --> 00:30:59,403 Because the problem is that in many countries the food are too expensive and 409 00:30:59,403 --> 00:31:01,952 in other countries it's too cheap. 410 00:31:01,952 --> 00:31:04,868 We don't have the right value of food today, 411 00:31:04,868 --> 00:31:09,702 we don't have the right price on it and I wouldn't go to this system where we 412 00:31:09,702 --> 00:31:14,107 have that because then we have many people that can't afford food. 413 00:31:14,107 --> 00:31:18,091 But to think in a way where we produce more local. 414 00:31:18,091 --> 00:31:20,765 Then if you go deeper in this issue, 415 00:31:20,765 --> 00:31:26,660 we need quite a lot of research of how we can produce food more climate neutral. 416 00:31:26,660 --> 00:31:31,463 And here we have the problem that in Finland for example, 417 00:31:31,463 --> 00:31:35,663 we can do it one way, but when we go to even so near so 418 00:31:35,663 --> 00:31:39,288 Denmark, it has to be done in another way. 419 00:31:39,288 --> 00:31:42,587 If we want to produce climate good as as possible, 420 00:31:42,587 --> 00:31:47,221 we have to have grass because we can grow grace very, very good here and 421 00:31:47,221 --> 00:31:50,462 we have to have grass and feed animals with that. 422 00:31:50,462 --> 00:31:55,029 In other countries, this is not optimal way to handle the climate issue. 423 00:31:55,029 --> 00:31:59,856 We have to think about that the consumption will be more more regional 424 00:31:59,856 --> 00:32:03,020 because possibilities to produce various, 425 00:32:03,020 --> 00:32:06,449 depending on where on the world you are working. 426 00:32:06,449 --> 00:32:11,451 And one problem today is that we try to solve the finished 427 00:32:11,451 --> 00:32:16,348 problem with solutions that thought to be solutions in 428 00:32:16,348 --> 00:32:20,818 another part of the world with another climate and 429 00:32:20,818 --> 00:32:26,907 this is one of our big issues today, how we can be more sustainable. 430 00:32:26,907 --> 00:32:30,226 And here we need a lot of research. 431 00:32:30,226 --> 00:32:34,250 We haven't got the picture ready for us yet. 432 00:32:34,250 --> 00:32:37,497 When we are discussing climate or nutrition, 433 00:32:37,497 --> 00:32:40,910 the farmers do a lot of work, but many say that for 434 00:32:40,910 --> 00:32:45,752 example, if you are a problem, of course you can see it as a problem. 435 00:32:45,752 --> 00:32:47,945 But we have to have food and 436 00:32:47,945 --> 00:32:52,830 we have to do it in a way where the problem is the smallest and 437 00:32:52,830 --> 00:32:59,413 we can't do decisions that are made, so the food supply are not are secured and 438 00:32:59,413 --> 00:33:03,950 this is how we can manage the soil and the production. 439 00:33:03,950 --> 00:33:08,539 We have to do a lot more research how to do it in the best way. 440 00:33:08,539 --> 00:33:12,349 But the research and the results have to be local and 441 00:33:12,349 --> 00:33:16,155 the local in this point of view, I mean, as I said, 442 00:33:16,155 --> 00:33:21,491 depending on the climate and the soil ground and the society as a whole. 443 00:33:21,491 --> 00:33:27,797 We can't get one quick fix for the whole world and in the discussion, I see quite 444 00:33:27,797 --> 00:33:33,845 a lot of this that someone thinks that can do one quick fix all over the world. 445 00:33:33,845 --> 00:33:39,836 For example, I take the discussions that we had a year ago where 446 00:33:39,836 --> 00:33:47,087 many said that we have to stop it meet in Finland, it will be a good solution. 447 00:33:47,087 --> 00:33:52,644 If you look at it as a whole, there is no evidence that this will be a solution. 448 00:33:52,644 --> 00:33:59,339 I wouldn't say that we could eat less meat and we eat too much as a whole in Finland, 449 00:33:59,339 --> 00:34:05,083 we could eat less food and maybe our health will improve that way also. 450 00:34:05,083 --> 00:34:10,683 But you can't do radical solutions when you don't have the whole picture clear for 451 00:34:10,683 --> 00:34:15,243 you what it means on the local level because we have to eat every day. 452 00:34:15,243 --> 00:34:20,283 So I think we have to have a not a revolution and evolution is the only 453 00:34:20,283 --> 00:34:26,227 possibility we have here and by research and new methods, we will come there. 454 00:34:26,227 --> 00:34:31,284 When we are discussing the climate, we very often forget that the main 455 00:34:31,284 --> 00:34:36,609 problem is fossil energy, it's not what we produce in the nature today. 456 00:34:36,609 --> 00:34:43,360 The nature is the only way to get the carbon oxide from atmosphere. 457 00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:48,743 And we have to handle these resources so we can do it as good as possible. 458 00:34:48,743 --> 00:34:52,251 But we can't make the solution to the problem, 459 00:34:52,251 --> 00:34:57,250 the problem is the fossil energy and there we have to do the big work so 460 00:34:57,250 --> 00:35:01,832 we can handle the climate in a way that will be positive for us. 461 00:35:01,832 --> 00:35:06,743 We have to have the whole picture before we do things in the nature because 462 00:35:06,743 --> 00:35:11,734 the nature is the most complex that we had on our maybe many times think that 463 00:35:11,734 --> 00:35:15,779 it's the Artifical Intelligence or something like that. 464 00:35:15,779 --> 00:35:19,972 Nature is much more sophisticated and developed and 465 00:35:19,972 --> 00:35:23,120 things that we must have constructed. 466 00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:29,038 >> You have already been touching on this question but it's a really big question. 467 00:35:29,038 --> 00:35:33,955 How can you get people to choose locally produced food at Rico instead 468 00:35:33,955 --> 00:35:36,780 of imported food in the grocery store? 469 00:35:36,780 --> 00:35:40,519 I know it's a really big question, but do you have any ideas? 470 00:35:40,519 --> 00:35:43,194 >> As I said before, I don't believe in quick fixes. 471 00:35:43,194 --> 00:35:48,091 I think we have to explain what we know today about how food 472 00:35:48,091 --> 00:35:53,106 are coming from the field, from the nature to the people. 473 00:35:53,106 --> 00:35:57,622 And I think we have a change going on here and take a look on Finland and 474 00:35:57,622 --> 00:36:02,377 then the finished consumer, the main part of the finished consumers, 475 00:36:02,377 --> 00:36:05,882 it's very important that the food is from Finland. 476 00:36:05,882 --> 00:36:09,901 This is not any specialty for Finland. 477 00:36:09,901 --> 00:36:14,946 It's in most of the countries, you look at the food this way, 478 00:36:14,946 --> 00:36:18,934 people want to eat that is produced near nearby. 479 00:36:18,934 --> 00:36:25,397 We have to have food every day and you can't decide that I don't buy food today. 480 00:36:25,397 --> 00:36:30,288 The price is in a very central position when the consumer 481 00:36:30,288 --> 00:36:33,837 do the decision what they buy for to eat. 482 00:36:33,837 --> 00:36:36,818 And I think you have to have an ongoing 483 00:36:36,818 --> 00:36:41,349 discussion on what other values can you put in the food. 484 00:36:41,349 --> 00:36:45,571 In Finland, many seafood as only nutrition, but 485 00:36:45,571 --> 00:36:49,289 in other cultures, food are so much more and 486 00:36:49,289 --> 00:36:54,212 I think we have to get this into the debate that the food is so 487 00:36:54,212 --> 00:36:58,653 much more than the nutrition and how we handle this. 488 00:36:58,653 --> 00:37:03,295 We have also a discussion going in the other direction, 489 00:37:03,295 --> 00:37:07,640 also in Finland, the video research on this field, 490 00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:13,171 that means that we in the future should produce food in factories, 491 00:37:13,171 --> 00:37:19,719 not in the nature, it will be nutrition values that will be in the middle of it. 492 00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:25,553 And I think this will go further and I think to have the Russian and 493 00:37:25,553 --> 00:37:32,697 try to tell the consumers how we produce what we do, what are important for us. 494 00:37:32,697 --> 00:37:38,550 And I think we are not going back to the situation that we have a 30 495 00:37:38,550 --> 00:37:44,298 years ago in Finland where almost everything eat the same food, 496 00:37:44,298 --> 00:37:49,418 it was a very small group that was eating something else. 497 00:37:49,418 --> 00:37:51,069 We had our sausages, 498 00:37:51,069 --> 00:37:56,034 we have a standard food that almost every family eat in Finland. 499 00:37:56,034 --> 00:38:00,723 The world is moving on also in Finland in a direction where 500 00:38:00,723 --> 00:38:05,032 food means different things for different groups. 501 00:38:05,032 --> 00:38:10,474 And I think we will see a situation where we will have many different 502 00:38:10,474 --> 00:38:15,153 points of view, how you choose, when you choose to eat. 503 00:38:15,153 --> 00:38:20,436 From my point of view, the near produced is where the food chain is as short 504 00:38:20,436 --> 00:38:25,484 as possible, it's important as a producer, but also as a consumer. 505 00:38:25,484 --> 00:38:29,049 But I think we have to have an open society, 506 00:38:29,049 --> 00:38:33,815 so everyone have the possibility to decide how they eat. 507 00:38:33,815 --> 00:38:39,204 I don't like when people say how other people have to eat. 508 00:38:39,204 --> 00:38:43,604 I think to eat it's a very personal thing, it's something that you put 509 00:38:43,604 --> 00:38:47,212 inside of you and it's something that come very near you. 510 00:38:47,212 --> 00:38:50,738 That's why the discussion sometimes get very, 511 00:38:50,738 --> 00:38:53,580 very hot when we discuss these things. 512 00:38:53,580 --> 00:38:59,652 The important thing for me is that everyone know what they eat and 513 00:38:59,652 --> 00:39:04,487 the consequences of their choices for the nature, 514 00:39:04,487 --> 00:39:08,210 for the health and and for the society. 515 00:39:08,210 --> 00:39:12,189 >> Thank you very much for this interview Anders, 516 00:39:12,189 --> 00:39:16,772 how much we have learned, it was really interesting. 517 00:39:16,772 --> 00:39:19,997 Thank you so much for the interview Anders, so 518 00:39:19,997 --> 00:39:24,723 what did you guys find the most interesting during this interview? 519 00:39:24,723 --> 00:39:29,943 >> I really liked Anders thoughts regarding how complex the nature is, 520 00:39:29,943 --> 00:39:35,523 how we think that technology and AI and all that is so hard to understand and 521 00:39:35,523 --> 00:39:41,292 complex, but actually we already have a super complex system handed to us. 522 00:39:41,292 --> 00:39:45,274 And I think that we need to be aware of that and 523 00:39:45,274 --> 00:39:49,806 we need to take care of it in the best possible way. 524 00:39:49,806 --> 00:39:54,414 What did you guys found the most interesting that Anders brought up? 525 00:39:54,414 --> 00:40:00,584 >> I also thought the view he had on the food production was very interesting. 526 00:40:00,584 --> 00:40:06,991 I like that he mentioned that production varies all around the world and 527 00:40:06,991 --> 00:40:11,901 food can be a very personal thing as a human because some 528 00:40:11,901 --> 00:40:17,055 seafood as pleasure and some seafood as just nutrition. 529 00:40:17,055 --> 00:40:22,117 And therefore we need to create solutions that fits everybody, 530 00:40:22,117 --> 00:40:26,722 every country and the values and view people have on food. 531 00:40:26,722 --> 00:40:29,151 >> Yeah, I totally agree. 532 00:40:29,151 --> 00:40:33,530 I thought it was also interesting hearing about the future of the food industry. 533 00:40:33,530 --> 00:40:37,663 I think it's truly important to keep on evolving the food industry for 534 00:40:37,663 --> 00:40:39,563 it to become more sustainable. 535 00:40:39,563 --> 00:40:42,940 It is important for both us and for the planet. 536 00:40:42,940 --> 00:40:47,474 >> Yes, we can't have a revolution in food production. 537 00:40:47,474 --> 00:40:53,668 We need an evolution for sustainable food production. 538 00:40:53,668 --> 00:41:14,856 [MUSIC]